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Bad Monsters in a vaccum...what defines the top tier.

 
Author Will Grant
Forums Member
#1 | Posted: 30 Apr 2010 10:35 am | Edited by: Will Grant
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If i were more photoshop savy and/or had more time on my hands I would have taken a picture of a bunch of bad monsters resting with trash in a vaccum cleaner bag for this post :p. Bonus Mountain Dew for anyone that creates this image.

There is a very circular arguement that goes around competitive communities of any sort. In fact with the release of Super street fighter IV, I am seeing the exact same arguements circulating within two completely different forms of nerdy, competitive media.

The Arguements are as follows:

A: Monster X is garbage.
B: Monster X is awesome if you pick this map, your mother in law watches, and you have more turtle in you than Pizza Hut in the 90s.

A: Monster Y is top tier
B: Monster Y lacks this is and has way too many options to be used in any one given turn. He's also too Z dice intensive and/or his units suck.

C: There are no such things as tiers! It's all about the player piloting and his level of Leet Skills. I love the underdog, and girls pity date me b/c I lack conviction and I'm wishy washy.

I love these arguments. They make a community go round. They make players strive to be better at their craft, even play a worthless monster and come out on top.

The fact of the matter is, not all monsters were created equal. (Oh Noes!)

Then again, most every monster is good, or at least decent in a vaccum. Every time I hear an argument for a bad monster such as Krakenoctus I hear,

"Well, if I sprout Ovaries and stay in my starting area, I'm sure to win."

This is the Kraken in a vaccum, in order to win he has to get map choice and he can't face any armies that also heal. The idea for winning with him is you threaten with your own units until they cross the board, at which time you hopefully have enough p dice to pull crazy tow tactics.

The problem with this tactic is that it is not, "TAKE ALL COMERS", and there are several matchups that this monster simply cannot win.

I'll use one of my favorite monsters as an example. Ulgoth is an awesome monster when facing monsters without a blast attack. Problem is, he faced anything with Zor or Sky before his name, he's gonna get shot to crap.

And since "tier" is an arbitrary term that differs from person to person, I feel that I must define it for my own purposes...

A top tier Monster can take all Comers. To take all comers, a monster must never get map choice and be able to deal with everything that's thrown at him. A monster that can't deal with one particular map/army type is ousted from the top tier.

I have heard some arguments that the current meta is Rock/Paper/Scissors, but I say Nay. As long as there aren't any nerfs there has to exist an S Tier (Poor Sagat).

Here are the requirments in the current meta. A top tier monster must survive( in no particular order):

1) Excel/ Survive against fast, blasty monsters. There are a number of culprits here. The major conspirators are MZM and Ultra Sky sentinel. These guys gets you by running away. These are the more mobile of the turtles.

Noteable Exclusions: All slow peds.

2) Deal with turtle monster + Life Gain: Life gain has gotten so much better since rise block. These are the turtlers. To counter these goofballs, one needs really good units and a way to cross the board plus their own life gain. If there's one thing I've learned in all Monpoc games i've played. The opponent's side of the board is a dangerous place to be. Instead a monster must be able to coax a turtle out of his shell by putting damage on him whilst healing his own.

Noteable exclusions: lack of life gain. The zors take a hit here, but I feel it is the their fragile elemental ninja brothers that hurt the most here with lack of Shadow Gate. Elementals really take a pounding from Turtlers.

3) Excel/survive on mini cities and Boardwalk Brawl (14 foundations): A monster can't be too dependent on buildings to fund it's engine or damage. Or else it will feel the wrath of Mini Mega Mantacon. This will soon include being able to deal multiple damage to Generals and Sharks.

Noteable exclusions: Beatback monsters take a huge hit here. I have a hard time putting most beatback monsters in the top tier at this point with the availability of Beatback counters. Tyrannix, Osh, and MZM are the only noteable survivors at this point.

4) Excel/survive at Killer Canals: Invaders and Destroyers love this map due to the lack of mobility on large maps. They counterblance this lack of mobility with great unit general monsters and mad beats you in the face units. Killer Canals allows them this mobility.

Noteable exclusions: Squishies. I beat A quantum Kondo in 4 total turns the other day
using Mega Vorgax. I was only able to due to his squishiness.

5) Alternate P dice generation: this isn't an opposing army typing per se as much as it is a shift in the meta. With the amount of mobility available to most armies, Power bases just aren't a reliable source of power any more. Very often the source of late game power comes from destroying opposing units in number: Multishot, radial, explosion, etc or Alternative P dice generation on the monster: Riled, Rage, Super stomp/rampage, Blitz. I've seen A LOT of power hungry monsters lately. A top tier monster has to deal with this either by creating his own power or not needing much power (like Sky Sentinel).

Noteable exclusions: Zor Voltis and MPD. I'm sure there are others present here, but as these are two of my favorite monsters, I felt as if I should mention them here. Against any Savy disruption player, these guys really take a hite with very few ways to generate power outside of unit turns.

In closing, I have my ideas as to which monsters survive this gauntlet. Who are yours?
Author King Kondo
Forums Member
#2 | Posted: 30 Apr 2010 12:03 pm
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Sagat
Author Andrew Brannan
Forums Member
#3 | Posted: 30 Apr 2010 3:50 pm | Edited by: Andrew Brannan
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Osheroth. Granted, I haven't played a good Sky Sentinel player yet, but I'm having trouble thinking of a map/monster/playstyle combination that Osheroth can't handle. She's just got too many options available to her with the Towers and Music Producers.

And, in keeping with option C above, I'll state that I may well be wrong, and I welcome someone giving me a rundown on what they think will kill her.
Author Patrick Thunstrom
Forums Member
#4 | Posted: 3 May 2010 1:26 am
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Sky sentinel described as a mobile turtle is pretty much dead on. My local metagame early on was filled with everything EXCEPT Dinos, and while I had to shift my strategy based on my opponent, Ultra SS can eat up life like nothing else. My least favorite matches were against Cthugrosh, and that's because he was played as a turtle, and gained plenty of life.
 
 
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